WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.919 Matthew Schmidt: To the cloud, and I would like to say, welcome everyone to the third in the design and development divisions. 2 00:00:08.580 --> 00:00:16.980 Matthew Schmidt: webinar series on learning experience design and i'm very excited to introduce our two authors and presenters today. 3 00:00:17.520 --> 00:00:26.250 Matthew Schmidt: We have you young child and we have jin khawaja who are going to present the presenting on a book chapter that they published in. 4 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:42.930 Matthew Schmidt: A open access book that was released in 2020 on learning experience design and they will be presenting challenges for novice designers today, so it is with great anticipation that I pass the MIC to our presenters. 5 00:00:44.340 --> 00:00:45.750 Matthew Schmidt: The floor is yours. 6 00:00:46.410 --> 00:00:47.310 Jin Kuwata: Well, thank you very. 7 00:00:48.360 --> 00:00:55.110 Jin Kuwata: Good Hello everybody, as the title says learning experience design challenges for novice designers. 8 00:00:56.280 --> 00:01:04.350 Jin Kuwata: We are affiliate with teachers college Columbia University and we're hoping that this is gonna be a fun webinar session, where we can interact with each other. 9 00:01:04.950 --> 00:01:12.000 Jin Kuwata: here's some of your stories, as well as some of our stories and so let's keep it casual let's keep it kind of smart and let's have a lot of fun with this. 10 00:01:12.540 --> 00:01:19.500 Jin Kuwata: For today's agenda essentially we're going to be going through a couple of comics that are part of a chapter. 11 00:01:19.890 --> 00:01:25.740 Jin Kuwata: And we're going to do a code analysis together of some of the caricatures some of the characters in this comic. 12 00:01:26.190 --> 00:01:34.530 Jin Kuwata: Particularly looking at and thinking about the novice designers challenge right, what are the challenge with we're thinking about how to address the challenges that these people face. 13 00:01:34.860 --> 00:01:47.250 Jin Kuwata: And we're going to also have some concluding thoughts or remarks and questions so a little about us, first let me just introduce you to my lovely colleague Dr you can Chang you can you want introduce yourself. 14 00:01:47.550 --> 00:01:55.830 Yoo Kyung Chang: Sure hello, and welcome to the webinar while it's a webinar we really didn't want to make this into a conversation conversation between me and Jen. 15 00:01:56.220 --> 00:02:06.060 Yoo Kyung Chang: Around the chapter and and some of the topics around the topic, but really a conversation with you as well, so we could share our thoughts perspectives and experiences, so please do. 16 00:02:06.510 --> 00:02:18.810 Yoo Kyung Chang: join in the chat window, it will will mostly have our conversation through the chat window so have your chat window open and participate throughout the webinar it's one thing that I guess a little bit about the background and. 17 00:02:20.700 --> 00:02:26.160 Yoo Kyung Chang: How we got to where we are today and sharing these topics through the chapter and the. 18 00:02:27.210 --> 00:02:32.760 Yoo Kyung Chang: end the webinar today is I identify myself as a learning experience designer. 19 00:02:33.780 --> 00:02:39.780 Yoo Kyung Chang: and also a researcher, so I practice learning experience design, but also study it. 20 00:02:40.410 --> 00:02:51.630 Yoo Kyung Chang: And also teach it as an educator and I think that's sort of what led us Gemini to get to today, where we have been observing our students struggling. 21 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:59.550 Yoo Kyung Chang: And some of the practices of becoming a learning experience designers and we thought there are certain things that parents that we notice what are some of the things that we can do. 22 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:12.090 Yoo Kyung Chang: So that really was the motivation for our chapter, but also some of the things that we wanted to share with you today and also something that you would like an invite you to also share from your own experiences to kitchen. 23 00:03:12.660 --> 00:03:18.420 Jin Kuwata: yeah so, you know as a colleague i'm also an educator practitioner researcher, etc. 24 00:03:19.710 --> 00:03:35.940 Jin Kuwata: i'm very interested in social experiences, as well as how to think about and look at design part of my design group cognos lab right now we're super into this idea of how do people getting into this program who are brand new to design and thinking about design. 25 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:40.080 Jin Kuwata: Observing phenomenon right that they see learning phenomenon and being able to go. 26 00:03:40.110 --> 00:03:45.840 Jin Kuwata: Deeper you know into that onions peeled I peel to see the heart of what's in there and. 27 00:03:46.140 --> 00:03:55.290 Jin Kuwata: We found this is really challenging I mean it's challenging for us, of course, it's challenging for people who have very little background and learning theory concepts knowledge pedagogy etc. 28 00:03:55.770 --> 00:04:03.090 Jin Kuwata: And so you know, like you can says we're both very passionate and interested in developing and nurturing. 29 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:16.620 Jin Kuwata: Future designers and so the question here is like what makes them unique right what are ways we can help them, and this has been a very inspiring piece, for you know our chapter, as well as the ongoing wonderful work that you can does. 30 00:04:17.220 --> 00:04:22.740 Jin Kuwata: The work that I tried to keep up with her on and yeah so we're really happy to present this kind of stuff today. 31 00:04:23.250 --> 00:04:32.340 Jin Kuwata: And so you know a little bit about this chapter, I think you probably all know by now, it is in the book learning and learner and user experience research. 32 00:04:32.730 --> 00:04:42.090 Jin Kuwata: Special thanks to Dr Matthew Schmidt, who has been a very wonderful supporter and champion of work that we've been doing just a pleasure to work with you not and. 33 00:04:42.570 --> 00:04:47.550 Jin Kuwata: You know this is where we make our pitch of like please buy the book but hey it's free that's so that's pretty wonderful. 34 00:04:47.970 --> 00:04:58.320 Jin Kuwata: And again, you know, to reiterate, you know a lot of this experience, I think, especially you know, for me, one of the joys was really designing and working with you know up this wonderful artist jack cons. 35 00:04:58.950 --> 00:05:07.890 Jin Kuwata: With the comic in mind thinking about and translating different slices of what we see in the students that you know we are invested in. 36 00:05:08.100 --> 00:05:19.050 Jin Kuwata: And kind of translating that into a vignette caricature that we can draw from as we make these discussions and dive deeper into the research, so you know reading. 37 00:05:19.440 --> 00:05:28.350 Jin Kuwata: text reading books that's a learning experience to write, and so we really wanted to challenge ourselves as well throughout the writing of this chapter, how could we rethink. 38 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:40.890 Jin Kuwata: What a you know text or you know visual based way of delivering this could be for the user right the user experience to learn or experience so that was a really challenging piece, for me, you got something to add for that you can. 39 00:05:41.640 --> 00:05:54.570 Yoo Kyung Chang: know I mean, I hope you enjoy the different modality that we used and presenting are in communicating some of the ideas that we wanted to share with you and we will also do that throughout today's webinar to yeah. 40 00:05:54.780 --> 00:06:02.580 Jin Kuwata: Maybe I look at my until like moving in and kick us off with this like what is, you can what is learning experience design really sure. 41 00:06:02.850 --> 00:06:09.960 Yoo Kyung Chang: I think the call for the book chapter actually did note this particular challenge in the field itself right, so there is an. 42 00:06:11.010 --> 00:06:26.370 Yoo Kyung Chang: accepted definition of learning experience design as of now right and it is something that probably will continue to evolve, but we thought there should be some definition that we should work with for the for our chapter and the definition that we proposed was. 43 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:37.560 Yoo Kyung Chang: That learning experience design is a practice of designing learning as a human centered experience that leads to a desired goal so many abstract concepts right. 44 00:06:37.710 --> 00:06:38.910 Yoo Kyung Chang: So, if you read the chapter, we. 45 00:06:38.910 --> 00:06:44.910 Yoo Kyung Chang: do try and go into unpack what do we mean by these these different concepts, but there were four. 46 00:06:45.990 --> 00:06:53.880 Yoo Kyung Chang: defining characteristics and we really wanted to emphasize when it's the learning experience the other humans centeredness. 47 00:06:54.810 --> 00:07:05.970 Yoo Kyung Chang: gold directness and the concept of design, what does it mean to design today in today's webinar, we would like to focus particularly on the concept of learning experience. 48 00:07:06.510 --> 00:07:14.850 Yoo Kyung Chang: And how that idea or that the concept really poses challenges for the early career or novice learning experience designers. 49 00:07:16.860 --> 00:07:27.540 Jin Kuwata: So you know, one of the things in the title of that often comes up more talking about this with others, is the word novice right What challenges do novices face when practicing LSD right. 50 00:07:28.050 --> 00:07:35.400 Jin Kuwata: um and you some people ask like is that really a good use of the word like novice, and so we want to clarify, you know. 51 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:48.930 Jin Kuwata: The idea of novice right and expertise, you know there's different kinds of ways of thinking about it there's domain expertise, where you know it's like within the domain of physics, maybe you've won the Nobel Prize everyone within your domain agrees, you are an expert in something. 52 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:58.350 Jin Kuwata: But there's also other kinds of ways of characterizing you know expertise, such as relative expertise right, I might live in New York City and, therefore, when my parents come in to visit. 53 00:07:59.070 --> 00:08:05.520 Jin Kuwata: They asked me as the authority on New York City and things so there's multiple definitions of that, and you know. 54 00:08:05.940 --> 00:08:15.360 Jin Kuwata: We really can't say that you know any one person is you know not as it's not like a monolithic like you know category that we can use, but it is a kind of. 55 00:08:16.080 --> 00:08:22.500 Jin Kuwata: convenient way of thinking about things when we think about the differences that different people with different experiences have. 56 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:28.320 Jin Kuwata: As they enter into this field and have to grapple with challenges learn new things grow and as a practitioner. 57 00:08:28.740 --> 00:08:35.760 Jin Kuwata: And so we use this framing as a way to think about the characteristics and qualities of the people, you know that we're working with who we are. 58 00:08:36.690 --> 00:08:42.270 Jin Kuwata: teach us something about you know design right and think about ways that we can improve our practices and so. 59 00:08:42.570 --> 00:08:51.510 Jin Kuwata: This is kind of why we use this term, you could probably see a novice and everybody right, including myself, I always kind of think of my students and I tell them. 60 00:08:51.750 --> 00:08:58.020 Jin Kuwata: hey your design is terrible but don't worry mine is too i'm still learning right, so you know. 61 00:08:58.470 --> 00:09:04.290 Jin Kuwata: let's go into that journey with that kind of understanding, and this is the part where you all come in. 62 00:09:04.650 --> 00:09:16.470 Jin Kuwata: we'd like to take a really quick poll and Nice to kind of get the warm up before the recording started with people sharing where they're from in this poll, and the chat, we would like to you to share with us a little bit. 63 00:09:16.980 --> 00:09:30.480 Jin Kuwata: Who, you are and what we want to kind of see is this idea of what's your role, are you a student or a researcher, are you a teacher or your practitioner know kind of affiliation, do you have you know, maybe with higher ED or maybe you're working in a nonprofit. 64 00:09:31.230 --> 00:09:46.320 Jin Kuwata: As well as you know, if you want to share some brief in like interests and learning experience design, please feel free to do that in the chat window and we will take a look, see to see who our audience actually ends you guys want to take bets matt you kill any ideas. 65 00:09:50.340 --> 00:10:08.700 Jin Kuwata: I see professor, I see a director of organizational learning Hello lori I see Dale front end web developer all right, Nice and neta and welcome practitioner instructor teaching teacher instructional designer there wow. 66 00:10:10.110 --> 00:10:12.240 Yoo Kyung Chang: meditative learning officer to. 67 00:10:12.900 --> 00:10:23.940 Jin Kuwata: You went to the ends of the earth to find a whole wide variety of people for us make our life super extra interesting and challenging associate director efl teacher fantastic. 68 00:10:24.870 --> 00:10:26.220 Yoo Kyung Chang: I have a whole range of. 69 00:10:26.370 --> 00:10:27.420 Yoo Kyung Chang: experiences which. 70 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:28.830 Jin Kuwata: We have a Co editor. 71 00:10:31.530 --> 00:10:47.370 Jin Kuwata: Nice nice well, what do you think why Okay, I think there's definitely a lot of different kinds of people with different kinds of backgrounds and experiences, I wonder, you know what kinds of takeaways and things they'll share when we get into the thick of what we're about to talk about. 72 00:10:47.550 --> 00:10:51.420 Yoo Kyung Chang: I think we'll have some interesting input and perspectives today. 73 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:55.140 Yoo Kyung Chang: Great Thank you what continue sharing your. 74 00:10:57.300 --> 00:11:02.970 Yoo Kyung Chang: Sharing your your identity right into the chat window, I will continue the conversation. 75 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:04.320 Jin Kuwata: So. 76 00:11:04.530 --> 00:11:06.120 Yoo Kyung Chang: One of the reasons we asked this is. 77 00:11:06.150 --> 00:11:12.750 Jin Kuwata: You know now we're getting to this part where we'd like to kind of journey through the content with you and give you a little time to take a look at the comic which. 78 00:11:13.020 --> 00:11:25.380 Jin Kuwata: Are vignettes right and as you're looking through we're going to give you some time to read it first we want you to recall some of your past practices of learning experience design whatever capacity, you come from. 79 00:11:26.490 --> 00:11:31.770 Jin Kuwata: And there's two questions, I think that you know we're going to bounce off of. 80 00:11:32.280 --> 00:11:47.910 Jin Kuwata: One is how did you conceptualize learning experience versus learning outcomes right, and the second question that will kind of revolves our discussion around is how does your experience compare and contrast to that of the comic. 81 00:11:48.660 --> 00:12:08.520 Jin Kuwata: So with that let's go into the first comic and here we are so it's a little bit rearrange from the original Chapter seven comic to make sure that you know we have limited amount of time and fitting in there, but please go ahead and take three minutes to just read through this. 82 00:12:10.020 --> 00:12:12.210 Jin Kuwata: And then we'll follow up with some questions. 83 00:12:13.830 --> 00:12:32.280 Jin Kuwata: Interestingly, why we are reading this comic my notes say that June will dance during this segment while we're waiting for things um I think that you'll just have to deal with and settle with the spiritual in my heart, I am dancing around but there we go so three minutes. 84 00:12:34.920 --> 00:12:39.990 Jin Kuwata: The hardest thing about three minutes you can is the silence anticipation right waiting for people. 85 00:12:41.280 --> 00:12:43.440 Yoo Kyung Chang: For us, or us. 86 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:47.490 Jin Kuwata: Maybe this is part of the designed experience for us right. 87 00:12:59.820 --> 00:13:09.720 Jin Kuwata: Maybe to get a sense, you know if you're finished reading the comic Maybe you can give a little thumbs up signal in the chat That way, you know if we see a lot of people have finished, we can kind of move on. 88 00:13:10.860 --> 00:13:12.270 Jin Kuwata: Thank you Jason. 89 00:13:19.050 --> 00:13:20.550 Jin Kuwata: Not a race, not a race. 90 00:13:22.230 --> 00:13:25.290 Jin Kuwata: Pauline I see i'm in I see lori I see you. 91 00:13:26.550 --> 00:13:46.380 Jin Kuwata: can't see the bottom right can it be zoom um I think we're sharing the full screen, so it might be oh you mean the bottom right thing right now unfortunately i'm not in a position where I can really change the zooming on this without messing up the screen share. 92 00:13:47.550 --> 00:13:58.890 Jin Kuwata: The all the the comic panels are from the chapter itself, so, if you look around you might have to search a little bit because it's rearranged a little bit, but it is there, thank you for. 93 00:14:00.300 --> 00:14:00.840 Jin Kuwata: Bringing that up. 94 00:14:02.130 --> 00:14:02.700 Right. 95 00:14:05.550 --> 00:14:13.980 Jin Kuwata: So I think, maybe you know, most people have gotten through it and again the next slide conveniently Tara has it again. 96 00:14:14.790 --> 00:14:22.680 Jin Kuwata: So, but this time you'll notice that there are some numbers to this, and this is where you come in, once again, you are the true heroes of today's webinar. 97 00:14:23.070 --> 00:14:31.140 Jin Kuwata: In the chat, we would like some of your ideas on this comic and we've created a little template I don't know if it makes it any easier for you, but we tried. 98 00:14:31.770 --> 00:14:37.200 Jin Kuwata: The template that we're following you know that follows those two questions, a little bit that we were talking about before is this idea of. 99 00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:50.730 Jin Kuwata: In please cite the panel so, for example in panel to an our hero conceptualized is learning as and then enter your thoughts now as you read this, how do you see the character conceptualizing learning. 100 00:14:51.390 --> 00:14:58.230 Jin Kuwata: The second kind of prompt them have is comparing this to my practice my teaching my design my research. 101 00:14:58.710 --> 00:15:10.230 Jin Kuwata: here are my thoughts and so reflecting on how what you see here my connect to what you are doing and what you've experienced we'd love to hear that, please feel free to use the chat. 102 00:15:10.650 --> 00:15:19.200 Jin Kuwata: And you don't really have to use this template either we just tried to provide something in case you are absolutely lost for how to even start this conversation. 103 00:15:24.210 --> 00:15:27.000 Jin Kuwata: I don't think people expected this kind of homework you Kim, what do you think. 104 00:15:28.650 --> 00:15:31.920 Yoo Kyung Chang: yeah maybe, giving them the time to have their lunch right. 105 00:15:35.370 --> 00:15:36.240 Jin Kuwata: All right. 106 00:15:43.770 --> 00:15:44.370 Oh. 107 00:15:46.770 --> 00:15:48.180 Jin Kuwata: You can any thoughts. 108 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:49.410 yeah she. 109 00:15:50.760 --> 00:15:53.910 Yoo Kyung Chang: Had wrote and panel to end our. 110 00:15:55.470 --> 00:15:58.920 Yoo Kyung Chang: Consumers conceived of learning as a process model interesting. 111 00:16:03.810 --> 00:16:05.370 Jin Kuwata: thing panel to parent. 112 00:16:06.150 --> 00:16:11.100 Yoo Kyung Chang: We shouldn't have given that, as an as an example right I think everybody's focusing on to add. 113 00:16:12.540 --> 00:16:13.860 Yoo Kyung Chang: That was only an example. 114 00:16:14.430 --> 00:16:17.040 Yoo Kyung Chang: Please make sure you also do refer to others. 115 00:16:17.280 --> 00:16:19.260 Jin Kuwata: Oh, but i'm saying it now like. 116 00:16:19.920 --> 00:16:20.190 Yoo Kyung Chang: Okay. 117 00:16:20.340 --> 00:16:23.400 Jin Kuwata: i'm saying, she conceptualized is learning as a formula. 118 00:16:24.540 --> 00:16:31.170 Jin Kuwata: and puts it can be applied to any situation interesting linear process with the checklist a water flow. 119 00:16:32.070 --> 00:16:36.330 Jin Kuwata: Interesting yeah content driven this learning. 120 00:16:38.310 --> 00:16:46.590 Jin Kuwata: panel one and our hero concept as long as being something that is easily conceived and designed for our from a rigid process. 121 00:16:47.250 --> 00:16:53.430 Yoo Kyung Chang: Anyone yeah i'm wondering if anyone noticed anything in comparison to the Expert Panel. 122 00:17:06.690 --> 00:17:18.150 Jin Kuwata: Now i'm starting to see some panel like expert panelists and so learning is a problem to be solved required information about the most important variable the learner Oh, the learner as a variable I really like that framing. 123 00:17:19.320 --> 00:17:28.230 Jin Kuwata: complexity multi faceted ness i'm looking at the learner right I think these people already read the book like a like. 124 00:17:28.260 --> 00:17:28.380 A. 125 00:17:30.060 --> 00:17:30.420 Yoo Kyung Chang: Great. 126 00:17:31.410 --> 00:17:31.950 again. 127 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:37.920 Jin Kuwata: Okay really nice yeah I think we're starting to see patterns, so let me like this last one JESSICA Schneider says. 128 00:17:38.580 --> 00:17:46.050 Jin Kuwata: conceptualized learning as a problem which learning is a complex spectrum of variables with uncertain outcomes dealing with uncertainty and that thick of it. 129 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:53.490 Jin Kuwata: very nice very nice so yeah you know, like, I think the audience already picking up on a lot of interesting things and. 130 00:17:53.940 --> 00:18:03.960 Jin Kuwata: You know, maybe these are things they also see from students that they're working with right or maybe there's just things that they see when they were first in that designer shoe so you know it's like. 131 00:18:04.980 --> 00:18:05.340 Jin Kuwata: When we. 132 00:18:06.300 --> 00:18:08.820 Jin Kuwata: Think about the space right and this comic and some. 133 00:18:08.820 --> 00:18:15.060 Jin Kuwata: Of the things we're trying to get across you know, one of the main major takeaways I guess you know, there are many, but one of the major ones is. 134 00:18:15.810 --> 00:18:31.380 Jin Kuwata: novices right beginner designer students, we noticed that they have difficulty defining the problem I think many of the things that you guys are sharing in the chat have a lot to do with this right, I saw many people talking about the Multi faceted ignis and being able to see things. 135 00:18:32.430 --> 00:18:37.770 Jin Kuwata: You know the reason, one of the reasons we know that people new to this field new to learning needs any domain. 136 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:49.860 Jin Kuwata: have trouble defining problems is it's very hard to see complex phenomenon deeply we tend to be persuaded by the surface level themes of things as opposed to the deep structure nature of problems. 137 00:18:50.670 --> 00:18:59.700 Jin Kuwata: which makes it very difficult to identify what kinds of factors are involved and how we can make inferences between relationships of these different connected factors and. 138 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:08.370 Jin Kuwata: You know if you're an experienced design, you probably understand that we juggle a lot of these things right in our heads that then translate into our designs. 139 00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:18.660 Jin Kuwata: You know, when we talk about novices and things that nature, a lot of times you know they have other characteristics like when they're given the problem they take it at face value, and they see that as the. 140 00:19:18.990 --> 00:19:28.110 Jin Kuwata: kind of boundaries right within which they can think, whereas experts right tend to think of that as a starting point to then inquire about what other things are related. 141 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:32.340 Jin Kuwata: New people to design tend to summarize and repeat information right. 142 00:19:33.180 --> 00:19:42.750 Jin Kuwata: Whereas, you know experts kind of analyze it skeptically and start to synthesize their own conceptualization of what really is going on and how should I go about it. 143 00:19:43.110 --> 00:19:58.470 Jin Kuwata: And so there are certainly lots of differences in how you know these kinds of people on the scale of new to experience might conceptualize these things you can you have anything you know you want to particularly add in terms of what you notice from the audience. 144 00:19:59.250 --> 00:20:02.190 Yoo Kyung Chang: Well, I think one thing that I think we might have forgotten to serve. 145 00:20:03.120 --> 00:20:14.880 Yoo Kyung Chang: A purpose earlier on, is that one of the ways we actually perceived the the process of learning experience design is as a design Problem Solving anything that's one way to think about the overall process. 146 00:20:15.330 --> 00:20:28.620 Yoo Kyung Chang: That we like learning experience designers approach the the the task, and so the idea of, and you will see already that what we envision the learning experience. 147 00:20:29.100 --> 00:20:44.400 Yoo Kyung Chang: designers up engaging and some of you have articulated in the chat window, as well as that you begin by understanding the design problem, what is the problem, or the learning problem that you were trying to solve and then come up with a design solution. 148 00:20:44.850 --> 00:20:48.420 Yoo Kyung Chang: yeah solution to the particular learning problem that we're working with. 149 00:20:49.830 --> 00:20:50.250 Yoo Kyung Chang: Yes. 150 00:20:50.820 --> 00:20:53.910 Jin Kuwata: yeah and then to add on that you know because we're talking about this idea, the word. 151 00:20:53.910 --> 00:20:55.500 Jin Kuwata: process came up a lot. 152 00:20:55.530 --> 00:20:55.890 Yoo Kyung Chang: You know. 153 00:20:56.340 --> 00:21:03.510 Jin Kuwata: Especially in our discussion, as well as like the audience to, and you know, one of the first panels like panel one and I don't know if. 154 00:21:03.870 --> 00:21:16.830 Jin Kuwata: Reiterating this exactly but you know that's the panel which basically has you know, adding right so going back at one end addy, and this is something that you know I think is starting to fall out of favor as we take a look at other kinds of process models. 155 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:23.070 Jin Kuwata: But oftentimes dealing with addie right like analyze develop design, you know integrate whatever evaluate. 156 00:21:24.390 --> 00:21:32.640 Jin Kuwata: I haven't talked about this with students and ask them like is it like a process, or is it a procedure, and is there a difference between the process and procedure. 157 00:21:33.060 --> 00:21:43.350 Jin Kuwata: And you know when I think about this, you know a lot of times I see novices thinking about this as if I follow the steps what is a what is be what to see what is D, I have done the process. 158 00:21:43.800 --> 00:21:54.060 Jin Kuwata: But I think process to me goes a lot deeper than just the word analyze there's a lot of nuance this like How would I go about analyzing my user right their experience their backgrounds. 159 00:21:54.510 --> 00:22:08.880 Jin Kuwata: And that takes more than just knowing what the definition analyze is you know people in the field, people with experience experts might go about that inquiry that investigation differently, and so you know, this is very hard and what can we do about it. 160 00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:16.980 Jin Kuwata: As we move forward right we have another comic right vignette for you to take a look at again around the same kinds of initial. 161 00:22:18.270 --> 00:22:27.180 Jin Kuwata: Questions of how do you conceptualize learning experience versus outcomes and how does this experience compare and contrast to the comic and so again we're going to give you a little bit time to read this. 162 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:37.920 Jin Kuwata: Second comic Mike selection and then let's go through this again and see what the audience has to say so here we are multiple learners pathways interactions. 163 00:22:39.780 --> 00:22:43.620 Jin Kuwata: This is going to give me some time while they're reading to catch up on some of the chat. 164 00:22:52.710 --> 00:22:59.580 Jin Kuwata: Oh, this is interesting, like one E learning as a learning problem and feeling experience you know. 165 00:23:00.030 --> 00:23:16.710 Jin Kuwata: Feelings are actually like a really interesting aspect to consider when thinking about the whole learning experience you know our emotions and what effect that has to do for me as a practitioner like a design now it's I would say, you know that's something that has. 166 00:23:18.570 --> 00:23:28.290 Jin Kuwata: been more at the front of my mind right as I go through it, because you know when I was going through, I think my focus tended to kind of start in the world of you know, cognition and social learning. 167 00:23:28.860 --> 00:23:32.280 Jin Kuwata: lesson the emotional kind of experience and what things are, but as I. 168 00:23:32.610 --> 00:23:45.900 Jin Kuwata: talked to other colleagues and get exposed to other new clever ideas, you know that inter relation between that factor and how we think or how we enter exchange information or whatever, something that is also new to me and very interesting. 169 00:23:52.860 --> 00:23:54.510 Study oh cool. 170 00:23:58.500 --> 00:23:59.430 problem soft. 171 00:24:00.690 --> 00:24:01.380 Yoo Kyung Chang: exactly right. 172 00:24:03.540 --> 00:24:15.870 Jin Kuwata: If you guys are about finished with the comic please give us a little thumbs up or thumbs down I guess you know we can be very honest here, whichever you feel let me just let us know that you've gotten to the end of the comic and then we'll continue our discussion with you. 173 00:24:17.070 --> 00:24:23.850 Yoo Kyung Chang: I have a feeling we might be ready to move on to the next panel to invite them to yes, we know the drill now right. 174 00:24:24.450 --> 00:24:32.610 Jin Kuwata: Now right So here we are once again right same kind of thing in the chat please, this time, you know, based on this new contact and yet. 175 00:24:33.510 --> 00:24:46.650 Jin Kuwata: In panel blank right our hero conceptualize is learning as this comparing this to my experience practice teaching here's what I think feel free to share in the chat and let's see what kinds of stuff they come up with hair. 176 00:24:53.940 --> 00:25:02.070 Jin Kuwata: In panel to end our hero conceptualize is learning as a monolithic experience hers. 177 00:25:03.390 --> 00:25:11.670 Jin Kuwata: I love that one right like and I did not share my slides with anyone before this so we'll find out what we say next but yes. 178 00:25:13.830 --> 00:25:20.610 Jin Kuwata: And this is a it's kind of interesting right, you know kind of bouncing off that what other people are writing things in I feel like. 179 00:25:21.210 --> 00:25:31.740 Jin Kuwata: It there's two sides of the coin, when it comes to our own personal experiences one right, it can be informative right, it can be something that can help the way we think about design and empathize with people. 180 00:25:32.010 --> 00:25:45.240 Jin Kuwata: But it can also be a very dangerous thing if our experience becomes a bias, by which we kind of start ignoring other people's views thoughts like backgrounds, we have another entry in for end. 181 00:25:46.290 --> 00:25:53.460 Jin Kuwata: Okay, in for and are here conceptualize is learning as just coding right just coding. 182 00:25:54.030 --> 00:26:08.280 Jin Kuwata: teacher centric versus learner centric is a theme that's coming up in panel one he our hero conceptualize is learning as a transformation of the whole person, not just in addition of information and skills mm hmm. 183 00:26:09.300 --> 00:26:17.220 Jin Kuwata: Things making learning engaging versus experiences making learning engaging is an interesting framing. 184 00:26:18.570 --> 00:26:30.630 Jin Kuwata: experience day it kind of reminds me of that whole I don't know if y'all thought heard of like chocolate covered broccoli you know I first ran into that when I was taking a game design class many years ago. 185 00:26:31.320 --> 00:26:39.990 Jin Kuwata: difference between you know, taking broccoli which under this assumption, nobody likes and just coding it and chocolate which, personally, people like. 186 00:26:40.290 --> 00:26:51.750 Jin Kuwata: You know here's the game here's what's fun okay now there's a quiz do well on the quiz and you get to play the game versus you know how do you integrate that fun of the game into the mechanics which necessitate. 187 00:26:52.380 --> 00:26:59.640 Jin Kuwata: Understanding right or learning in order to go forward, so the motivation that plays inextricably connected to that motivation to learn. 188 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.130 Jin Kuwata: Very cool right so. 189 00:27:02.520 --> 00:27:06.870 Yoo Kyung Chang: here's an interesting post Jennifer says ideal situation versus reality. 190 00:27:09.300 --> 00:27:09.810 Jin Kuwata: hmm. 191 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:12.720 Yoo Kyung Chang: Which which one's the I don't know i'm not really sure. 192 00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:15.060 Yoo Kyung Chang: and 193 00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:26.010 Yoo Kyung Chang: yeah, so I think Jennifer wrote earlier and four and our hero conceptualizing learning justice coding and wondering if thats related Is that true. 194 00:27:27.420 --> 00:27:27.900 Yoo Kyung Chang: Jennifer. 195 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:30.000 Yoo Kyung Chang: yeah. 196 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:44.220 Jin Kuwata: So let's let's go into this a little bit more I think again we're seeing a lot of different kinds of themes coming out of this right, whether we're talking about you know. 197 00:27:46.260 --> 00:27:56.430 Jin Kuwata: The different parts of learning and how they're being put together or the different slices of things versus experience that you know different kinds of design of picking up on. 198 00:27:57.690 --> 00:28:03.480 Jin Kuwata: You know when when we think about the practice right one thing we notice in our students is. 199 00:28:04.110 --> 00:28:14.670 Jin Kuwata: A lot of times designs are very content and instruction focused, you know here is the coding right here is the what a variable is um and and. 200 00:28:15.150 --> 00:28:27.510 Jin Kuwata: Also, you know, the way in which they design kind of these linear independent items right, I think, in the last discussion someone was saying checklist or something like that right of learning design. 201 00:28:27.570 --> 00:28:30.240 Jin Kuwata: elements and yeah we see that a lot right oh. 202 00:28:30.300 --> 00:28:35.430 Jin Kuwata: it's this, and this, and this, so if I have this and I have this and I have this I have designed good job right. 203 00:28:36.330 --> 00:28:45.180 Jin Kuwata: Why don't you do that, so you know when we look into what we find is you know and somebody mentioned this in the audience to like you know, driven by their own experience. 204 00:28:45.510 --> 00:28:51.000 Jin Kuwata: it's difficult for people getting into you know this, to consider multiple learning experiences. 205 00:28:51.930 --> 00:29:06.180 Jin Kuwata: This all translates into having difficulty managing multi step path we've already seen today in our audiences just wide variety of people with different backgrounds, which implies different knowledge and understandings and expertise right, as well as not expertise. 206 00:29:07.110 --> 00:29:20.040 Jin Kuwata: they're going to be going through this webinar in very different ways right multi steps and thinking of those things planning is difficult, and so you know not only that, but all these different things for the emotion, to the cognition to the social experience. 207 00:29:21.180 --> 00:29:32.250 Jin Kuwata: These are factors that don't just exist in their own compartments but the interact and the emerge as cohesive experiences, this is very hard for people to do. 208 00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:40.410 Jin Kuwata: So, you know as we think about this, oh no you can't, what do you think what is the summary right from this stuff and what does this mean. 209 00:29:42.510 --> 00:29:50.250 Yoo Kyung Chang: Well, I mean it's really a lot of things, but we only just serve like highlighted two of them, I think a lot of these sentiments were already. 210 00:29:50.910 --> 00:30:01.080 Yoo Kyung Chang: shared in the chat window for different words as well, so I mean there are different struggles, as the novice designers would engage in the design Problem Solving process right. 211 00:30:02.430 --> 00:30:08.700 Yoo Kyung Chang: it's really difficult for them to conceptualize and empathize with the different learners. 212 00:30:09.330 --> 00:30:19.770 Yoo Kyung Chang: Through their learning experience, not because they don't want to, but because it is overwhelming, and I think that that word is kind of like very appropriate in this case there's so many factors to consider. 213 00:30:21.300 --> 00:30:28.230 Yoo Kyung Chang: And they're all very new to them, the process of understanding what are the relevant factors to understand, about the learners the learning task. 214 00:30:29.370 --> 00:30:38.340 Yoo Kyung Chang: And what may be emerging in that dynamic interaction between the two, and the context as well, it could be very overwhelming right so. 215 00:30:39.060 --> 00:30:50.280 Yoo Kyung Chang: If they what you typically see what the early career designers that they tend to see more singular or linear path of learning. 216 00:30:51.000 --> 00:31:07.020 Yoo Kyung Chang: Across learners, despite the fact that they have a whole checklist of who our learners are like this and that and that great and they're learning task has these different variations, instead of being able to account for multiple paths different experiences that that may that may emerge. 217 00:31:07.800 --> 00:31:08.220 yeah. 218 00:31:09.570 --> 00:31:17.370 Jin Kuwata: You know, and is asking a really interesting question does everyone need to have the same learning experience to achieve the same learning outcome. 219 00:31:18.120 --> 00:31:27.480 Jin Kuwata: um you know my initial thought to that was is it even possible for everyone to have the same learning experience or to have the same exact outcome. 220 00:31:28.320 --> 00:31:41.580 Jin Kuwata: And so I guess, we could just leave maybe address that again in the q&a later, but I think that's something definitely to ponder about and thinking about different people different paths different opportunities. 221 00:31:42.780 --> 00:31:43.170 Jin Kuwata: hmm. 222 00:31:45.510 --> 00:31:55.860 Yoo Kyung Chang: Just to really quickly on that as well, I think, just as much as the the whole struggle to define what learning experience design is in relation to. 223 00:31:56.310 --> 00:32:10.170 Yoo Kyung Chang: say more traditional practice of instructional design, I think one of the struggle has been the accounting for the aesthetics, of the experience itself, which often are overlooked and more traditional instructional design. 224 00:32:11.370 --> 00:32:21.690 Yoo Kyung Chang: Practice, so we do consider in a more traditional way of conducting instructional design we do care about learners we do empathize with learners we do. 225 00:32:22.080 --> 00:32:31.530 Yoo Kyung Chang: Try to analyze different stallion factors about the learners, whether it be cognitive metacognition or effective, but how we account for what that means. 226 00:32:32.040 --> 00:32:41.370 Yoo Kyung Chang: For the learning, I think, might be a little different, and you know I don't think there's one answer to this question, but I think that is really this question that and. 227 00:32:41.790 --> 00:32:51.720 Yoo Kyung Chang: Start post is really at the heart of this transition that we're going through from instructional design to conceptualizing learning experience design itself so. 228 00:32:52.500 --> 00:32:56.880 Jin Kuwata: yeah the bounce off right look, I think this is a very difficult thing, even for me right. 229 00:32:57.720 --> 00:32:58.890 Jin Kuwata: designed by nature. 230 00:32:58.890 --> 00:33:05.430 Jin Kuwata: Right is one where you are creating something that is supposed to get users from some kind of a point A to B right. 231 00:33:05.790 --> 00:33:16.980 Jin Kuwata: At the same time, how do you define what that point B is if we're going into this kind of definition that there are multiple possibilities of what outcomes could be, how do you even go about thinking of that. 232 00:33:18.450 --> 00:33:24.480 Jin Kuwata: You know this is challenging for students, as well, they asked me all the time, like Does that mean like anything goes like you know, like, I mean. 233 00:33:25.050 --> 00:33:31.770 Jin Kuwata: Anyone can go into something and have an experience so it's this balance that maybe that balance is also very subjective right. 234 00:33:32.130 --> 00:33:35.460 Jin Kuwata: But it has a lot to do, also with you know it's like maybe instead of. 235 00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:47.010 Jin Kuwata: Considering just particular goals you know expanding the possibilities to multiple ones or considering not just context goals, but what learners are thinking incorporate that in. 236 00:33:47.940 --> 00:33:58.500 Jin Kuwata: It is impossible for us to everything right, but I think the challenge to try to address that more with that awareness of what's going on beyond our little world and what we want to achieve. 237 00:33:58.860 --> 00:34:10.920 Jin Kuwata: is a step towards that spirit of what is learning experience and so yeah so you know, obviously the way they conceptualize things in the way that practice things and it's varied right and. 238 00:34:11.550 --> 00:34:17.910 Jin Kuwata: Now that we know that you know it really comes down to what are, then the things that we can do about this. 239 00:34:19.170 --> 00:34:19.590 Jin Kuwata: You can. 240 00:34:19.740 --> 00:34:20.730 Yoo Kyung Chang: Would you like did yeah so. 241 00:34:20.970 --> 00:34:27.510 Yoo Kyung Chang: Now let's talk so now that we have talked about some of many challenges that the. 242 00:34:28.560 --> 00:34:32.700 Yoo Kyung Chang: The novice designers may experience during their practice of learning experience design. 243 00:34:33.600 --> 00:34:41.010 Yoo Kyung Chang: let's talk more concretely about what are some of the things that we can do to help ourselves as novice designers or help. 244 00:34:41.610 --> 00:34:50.790 Yoo Kyung Chang: guide novice designers if you're working with them as educators and also what does it mean for the researchers studying the process of learning experience design. 245 00:34:51.390 --> 00:35:09.510 Yoo Kyung Chang: So here we would like to invite you to share your thoughts and suggestions, based on your experience now and from previous experiences, what are some of the challenges that you have experienced yourself that you associate with what you have observed earlier in the comment. 246 00:35:10.740 --> 00:35:17.640 Yoo Kyung Chang: And what are some of the suggestions that you may need you may provide, whether it be the tools or methods. 247 00:35:19.650 --> 00:35:38.430 Yoo Kyung Chang: I think we all know, the drill now right and the chat window, please share as your role right as a novice designers educators researchers practitioners, I suggest that novice designers conceptualize problems or develop some design solutions by doing. 248 00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:40.650 Your suggestion. 249 00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:50.040 Jin Kuwata: People are really kind of excited about that last question posed, and it is quite. 250 00:35:51.060 --> 00:35:52.440 Yoo Kyung Chang: A lot of discussion around that. 251 00:35:53.160 --> 00:35:57.330 Jin Kuwata: i'm in response that while we're waiting for people to contribute to the next thing. 252 00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:08.610 Jin Kuwata: learners who want to be instructional centers we want to learn from structured problems have been everyone had homogeneous experiences, especially given what we know about complexity of experience. 253 00:36:09.240 --> 00:36:13.530 Jin Kuwata: I feel learning is individualized and the learning outcome should not be unified as well. 254 00:36:13.830 --> 00:36:23.490 Jin Kuwata: I don't think it's possible I but they experience with faculty fighting similar experience for all learners often the goal now one size fits all, how do we resolve for all. 255 00:36:24.090 --> 00:36:33.630 Jin Kuwata: um you know I added a little bit of my thought you know it's like again, you know when I when I first got into design before you know thinking about things like this. 256 00:36:35.700 --> 00:36:45.330 Jin Kuwata: This topic we're talking about you know here's the endpoint the engineering endpoint of what I need to achieve right like very, very X marks the spot types of outcomes, but. 257 00:36:46.380 --> 00:37:00.030 Jin Kuwata: You know, as I think about this, you know learning experience and the kind of nebulous and getting comfortable with that fuzzy nervousness I began to kind of really like the idea of using the term spaces right so thinking about outcomes not. 258 00:37:00.060 --> 00:37:03.210 Yoo Kyung Chang: As a pinpoint, this is what ended achieve but here's the space. 259 00:37:03.690 --> 00:37:09.840 Jin Kuwata: within which I want people to pass through, and if they pass through that they're going to gain something unique. 260 00:37:10.290 --> 00:37:17.040 Jin Kuwata: But something in that space that, then you know it's like I can use as a designer right to create social experiences, where they can. 261 00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:25.440 Jin Kuwata: share and exchange what they've learned in those spaces to grow their understanding and they're just going to build overlaps when I think about outcomes, you know. 262 00:37:25.980 --> 00:37:29.460 Jin Kuwata: I guess depends on what kind of work on doing some outcomes like if you need a. 263 00:37:30.090 --> 00:37:35.940 Jin Kuwata: I don't know like five out of 10 on whatever metric for this compliance thing, maybe that's a very concrete outcome right but. 264 00:37:36.330 --> 00:37:47.310 Jin Kuwata: You know, for other kinds of outcomes when possible thinking about a spaces right of different kinds of outcomes that show aspects of understanding and learning of domain or topics, or whatever. 265 00:37:48.450 --> 00:38:01.890 Jin Kuwata: That has always helped me to guide and balance and negotiate this idea of I want to design to get them someplace but I don't want to corral them into having to follow one type of path right that's um. 266 00:38:02.790 --> 00:38:07.620 Jin Kuwata: You know, might not be the right fit for everyone, you can, what do you think what's going on in the chat. 267 00:38:07.830 --> 00:38:21.180 Yoo Kyung Chang: Now there's there's a two different conversations going on, but I love it, I think you know, at the end of the webinar we should have the whole discussion about the the the idea and socialization of learning experience design or maybe that's a whole nother webinar in its own right. 268 00:38:21.270 --> 00:38:21.900 Jin Kuwata: yeah right. 269 00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:42.570 Yoo Kyung Chang: um but because it's a fascinating topic and really at the heart of the discussion, but I do see some suggestions coming up right so and suggested that as an instructor instructional designer and learner I suggest that novice designers conceptualize whoops hold on I lost you okay. 270 00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:44.520 Yoo Kyung Chang: conceptualize problems are developed. 271 00:38:44.520 --> 00:38:50.370 Yoo Kyung Chang: Design solutions by planning to collect and use evidence to be flexible in their approach. 272 00:38:50.520 --> 00:38:55.860 Yoo Kyung Chang: hmm I like that it planning to collect and use evidence very, very nice. 273 00:38:56.940 --> 00:39:11.370 Yoo Kyung Chang: And Rebecca says as an educator I suggest that novice designers conceptualized problems have developed design solution by approaching a problem from multiple angles and lenses multiple angles and landed it. 274 00:39:13.710 --> 00:39:18.660 Jin Kuwata: Really hits home with me, because you know with my group, where we're always talking about the fact that. 275 00:39:19.260 --> 00:39:29.550 Jin Kuwata: You know people new to design like what kinds of lenses do they come in with right, because if you, you know lenses you pick up right through the experiences and knowledge that you gained. 276 00:39:30.180 --> 00:39:38.820 Jin Kuwata: But there's also other lenses that you've never even seen the world through right, how do we learn those things, and so, for us, you know, one of the things we've been kind of focusing on is. 277 00:39:39.180 --> 00:39:50.970 Jin Kuwata: Is there a set of basic lenses that can help people to start to see and talk about things that then leads to them inquiring and picking up others and such so I really like that contribution Thank you Rebecca. 278 00:39:52.020 --> 00:39:58.350 Yoo Kyung Chang: And I do see our polling and Susan yeah referring to the fact that did not focus into solution. 279 00:39:59.190 --> 00:40:02.940 Yoo Kyung Chang: I understand the problem versus the one of the first thing we always talk about. 280 00:40:04.140 --> 00:40:07.320 Yoo Kyung Chang: And i'm sure it's something that we a lot of us would share yes. 281 00:40:07.620 --> 00:40:17.850 Yoo Kyung Chang: understanding and but that understanding or conceptualizing the process of learning experience design as a problem or design problem solving. 282 00:40:18.810 --> 00:40:35.550 Yoo Kyung Chang: I think, is one of the lenses that you can adopt right also to say Okay, so we don't just jump into solving any problems in this world we have to understand what the problem is first right so that could be put time back to the ones are the perspective. 283 00:40:36.030 --> 00:40:39.330 Jin Kuwata: And you know it's like and this might be a little bit of an aside, but. 284 00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:48.960 Jin Kuwata: You know one thing that i've often found you know, especially with students learning this stuff you know Okay, we have students in technology and design, I want to make a math learning experience. 285 00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:52.980 Jin Kuwata: But they have zero math learning lenses right of the domain. 286 00:40:53.370 --> 00:41:03.090 Jin Kuwata: And this is very challenging right it's like have you talked to like a math students struggling have you talked to a math practitioner, and how they conceptualize and see math and challenges. 287 00:41:03.600 --> 00:41:11.070 Jin Kuwata: Oh, maybe that's a good idea right, and I think that's true with a lot of different domains different domains will have very specific lenses through which. 288 00:41:11.370 --> 00:41:18.810 Jin Kuwata: Even things like understanding, you know can be assessed like you know certain qualitative fields are going to be very different and what. 289 00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:34.800 Jin Kuwata: comprehension, or you know competence in that field is going to look like or feel like, and so you know yeah this lens thing and picking them up and actually promoting people to go out there and see these difficult challenging but super super important. 290 00:41:36.450 --> 00:41:37.170 Yoo Kyung Chang: To my right. 291 00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:39.000 Yoo Kyung Chang: Joanne. 292 00:41:40.590 --> 00:41:47.820 Yoo Kyung Chang: Shared a very interesting method that she uses as a teacher of instructional design the student focus. 293 00:41:48.630 --> 00:41:53.820 Yoo Kyung Chang: on creating their own instructional designs using the same process, but with different outcomes. 294 00:41:54.270 --> 00:42:02.970 Yoo Kyung Chang: Then I dedicate a third of the class to sharing and talking about the different factors, they have developed for their particular learners performance calls and content. 295 00:42:03.540 --> 00:42:17.460 Yoo Kyung Chang: As they create their own design if they can reflect on the connections between these factors and instructional factors and share those connections with their peers, they can grow their toolbox of connections exponentially so very interesting. 296 00:42:18.090 --> 00:42:24.120 Jin Kuwata: I mean there's so many wonderful and that little thing like that she kind of illustrates their. 297 00:42:24.990 --> 00:42:35.580 Jin Kuwata: First of all, like the collaborative nature, in which we have the ability to articulate how we've come to think about things and reason even given the same anchor like experience like i'm. 298 00:42:35.970 --> 00:42:49.410 Jin Kuwata: phenomenon right we approach it and look at it and process it in different ways, and of course that's what kind of you know, active collaboration is to share those reasonings that might be hidden underneath the layers of the surface of what the actual and. 299 00:42:49.530 --> 00:42:50.610 Jin Kuwata: design is. 300 00:42:50.820 --> 00:42:57.300 Jin Kuwata: But unless you know the reasoning you don't know how and why you know you might need to go about that consideration in future things. 301 00:42:57.600 --> 00:43:05.520 Jin Kuwata: there's elements in here, you know which kind of really emphasize idea design is inherently ill structured right in terms of problem you have to design like develop and. 302 00:43:06.120 --> 00:43:17.130 Jin Kuwata: define what it is you're trying to achieve and the thing that you'll structured Problem Solving you know it's it's a very difficult field in that you know some scholars are saying you know really the only way that you can. 303 00:43:17.550 --> 00:43:25.470 Jin Kuwata: improve your ill structured problem solving ability is to run through lots and lots and lots of structured problems because it's really about. 304 00:43:26.010 --> 00:43:36.210 Jin Kuwata: Through exposure right you're building an indexing a catalog of kind of characteristics and features that you in the future can draw from right to kind of test future ideas. 305 00:43:36.660 --> 00:43:40.170 Jin Kuwata: And you know, the more experienced, you are, you have kind of an organized way of. 306 00:43:41.160 --> 00:43:45.930 Jin Kuwata: Keeping that archive of stuff right, but for new people who don't have that, how do you and. 307 00:43:46.200 --> 00:43:56.520 Jin Kuwata: One nice thing about being human is, we can live vicariously through other people's experiences, by sharing these stories and insights getting a peer into their heads, so that one's really wonderful Thank you. 308 00:43:57.960 --> 00:43:59.250 Yoo Kyung Chang: Think i'll. 309 00:44:00.600 --> 00:44:04.380 Yoo Kyung Chang: Read me a comment, and then I think we'll move on to our suggestions. 310 00:44:05.340 --> 00:44:15.510 Yoo Kyung Chang: So Tommy share that as a researcher studying learning experience design, I suggested novice designers conceptualize problems by performing focus group interviews. 311 00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:27.990 Yoo Kyung Chang: or individual interviews with target learners so real problem from learners can be used to define the problem space for particular design project I think that's a great suggestion as well and. 312 00:44:29.160 --> 00:44:34.740 Yoo Kyung Chang: Well, thank you for sharing that Tommy can we move on to the next slide, and so I mean we. 313 00:44:35.550 --> 00:44:47.460 Yoo Kyung Chang: These different perspective and suggestions are really great i'm sure there's some that you are not articulating by you have you practice just intuitively in your classroom and in your practice daily practice as well. 314 00:44:48.630 --> 00:45:01.020 Yoo Kyung Chang: have many different suggestions, there we came up with two concrete suggestions, corresponding to largely the two problems that we we serve defined earlier on, one would be to support. 315 00:45:01.650 --> 00:45:06.960 Yoo Kyung Chang: How the novice designers can conceptualize and understand the problem space right. 316 00:45:07.560 --> 00:45:21.120 Yoo Kyung Chang: So first suggestion we make is that, when defining and representing problem spaces during problem generation referred to expert knowledge to see problems and experts seek expert advice and empirical literature. 317 00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:27.870 Yoo Kyung Chang: Basically, go do your homework Oh, we tell our students this all the time right, but what does it really mean right. 318 00:45:29.190 --> 00:45:43.020 Yoo Kyung Chang: The first of all, the the benefits of referring to expert knowledge and seek expertise or expert process, and doing so I think really helps novice designers and largely three different ways right. 319 00:45:43.860 --> 00:45:58.080 Yoo Kyung Chang: And will help the designers understand what you currently know or don't know because sometimes you don't know what you don't know right and by looking at what how others approach the understanding of the problem you get to know what you are currently missing. 320 00:45:59.160 --> 00:46:13.500 Yoo Kyung Chang: You also by observing how experts approach the problem definition, you get to see and and learn about the procedure or the procedural skills that they exercise to go about analyzing the problem. 321 00:46:15.270 --> 00:46:30.780 Yoo Kyung Chang: And another thing is, we all carry assumptions about what we think is the nature of the problem that we're trying to solve by referring to others or expert knowledge and how they conceptualize a problem you get to check your assumptions about the problem. 322 00:46:32.190 --> 00:46:40.560 Yoo Kyung Chang: That you might carry However, you know saying go to your homework learn about the problem is much easier said than done. 323 00:46:41.070 --> 00:46:57.120 Yoo Kyung Chang: Often, what we observe in our classroom is that when we ask students to go out go analyze your problem, who are the learners what are their struggles go look into the literature find out about the learning task the contextual problems and constraints. 324 00:46:58.140 --> 00:47:08.640 Yoo Kyung Chang: They often get overwhelmed and struggled with what are the resources that we should refer to what can we expect to get or What can we learn by referring to one. 325 00:47:09.180 --> 00:47:14.640 Yoo Kyung Chang: kind of resources over the other, for example, if I go talk to the subject matter experts, what can they offer. 326 00:47:15.210 --> 00:47:24.810 Yoo Kyung Chang: What Should I be referring to from what they offer to me when I go talk to the target learners, what can I expect to get from them and what are the types of information I should be. 327 00:47:25.530 --> 00:47:31.890 Yoo Kyung Chang: Getting from them or referring to from what they share, and how can I contextualize that into understanding the overall problem. 328 00:47:33.390 --> 00:47:49.230 Yoo Kyung Chang: same with empirical research same with the statistics and reports that we see, so these often if you were experienced practicing these learning experience design you do it almost intuitively because it has become our innate ability. 329 00:47:50.250 --> 00:47:59.400 Yoo Kyung Chang: One of the things that we can do as educators, as more advanced or experienced learning experience designer is to verbalized and. 330 00:48:00.270 --> 00:48:09.420 Yoo Kyung Chang: visualize verbalize articulate the process that we go through, and the rationale for why we're going through these processes Why am I. 331 00:48:09.900 --> 00:48:21.750 Yoo Kyung Chang: talking to the target learners what would I take and contextualize into my understanding of the problem and why would I take it as or not take as as understanding the problem, why. 332 00:48:22.560 --> 00:48:34.200 Yoo Kyung Chang: and make this more apparent for the novice designers so they could learn from how we go about the process of understanding the problem, I think there were, I see the chat window going up and up and up, let me have. 333 00:48:34.740 --> 00:48:37.260 Yoo Kyung Chang: A gin what What did you notice from the chat window. 334 00:48:38.190 --> 00:48:51.600 Jin Kuwata: So the people in the chat window are having a continuing conversation around this idea of well what happens when you know designers don't have access to you know. 335 00:48:52.710 --> 00:49:05.400 Jin Kuwata: Potential learners are subject matter experts to learn more about like the problem or how they shouldn't go about it but coming up with interesting ideas and submissions of how they've kind of dealt with this. 336 00:49:06.660 --> 00:49:20.550 Jin Kuwata: So you know, some people are saying well you know it's like if you can you can, but if you can't you know it's like what are other ways to kind of hack around this and you know it's like some of the things I see is you know, maybe more constraints like you. 337 00:49:20.550 --> 00:49:22.080 Jin Kuwata: know if the best we can do is. 338 00:49:22.290 --> 00:49:37.290 Jin Kuwata: Not like a 100% survey limiting it down to even like individual interviews right there are methods, you know teaching like you know design where it's something like designed for one right and where you only have one user and you are catering to their experience. 339 00:49:38.430 --> 00:49:50.910 Jin Kuwata: You know, obviously, like in corporate world and whatever you probably should not be doing that kind of thing, but I think that's a really interesting way of thinking about how we can give learners of design experiences with interacting and learning more about. 340 00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:56.280 Jin Kuwata: You know the point of some of this work, we just educators. 341 00:49:57.390 --> 00:50:06.300 Jin Kuwata: Sometimes I think it's useful to remind ourselves, maybe the point of the experience going through with us, you know developing like science. 342 00:50:06.930 --> 00:50:15.210 Jin Kuwata: isn't only just great design right the design quality might be very women, and if you don't have a group of people that you're trying to represent. 343 00:50:15.720 --> 00:50:25.500 Jin Kuwata: But if you have one, it is still going to be a learning opportunity for students to realize oh my gosh I didn't realize my biases and assumptions were so much different than what other people wanted to or. 344 00:50:25.770 --> 00:50:35.820 Jin Kuwata: I didn't realize the way that I asked questions ended up not being useful at all, so I have to really examine my practice and what I did, and so certainly right, that is a win. 345 00:50:36.930 --> 00:50:46.350 Jin Kuwata: And you know it's like the design might not be implementable right on a wider scale or whatever, but was the goal of this experience, really that or was it really to. 346 00:50:46.650 --> 00:50:57.960 Jin Kuwata: You know challenge students to see where their deficiencies are to have them reflect on what they need to improve next so that's kind of the stuff that's coming up here in the UK and. 347 00:50:58.080 --> 00:51:06.450 Yoo Kyung Chang: Thank you, I think we are we're almost at time so i'm going to we're going to move on to the next suggestion so and then we can wrap up. 348 00:51:07.140 --> 00:51:14.820 Yoo Kyung Chang: So that the other suggestion that we would like to make this really goes to the last point that I was making about how can the expert. 349 00:51:15.210 --> 00:51:25.380 Yoo Kyung Chang: designers or educators really help the novice designers with the process of learning design from the problem analysis, but also with a design solution as well. 350 00:51:26.100 --> 00:51:35.040 Yoo Kyung Chang: In order to support Problem Solving process use tools to externalize and visualize multiple factors and their relationships underlying the problem see. 351 00:51:36.120 --> 00:51:46.110 Yoo Kyung Chang: The largely three benefits, you can get from externalising your your process from understanding and conceptualizing the problem, but also in developing your design solution. 352 00:51:46.590 --> 00:51:55.230 Yoo Kyung Chang: Is it would offload the cognitive load that you would be experiencing through the problem analysis, but also through the design process. 353 00:51:56.670 --> 00:52:00.960 Yoo Kyung Chang: would also help you check the gap or misalignment and how your understanding the problem. 354 00:52:02.550 --> 00:52:13.110 Yoo Kyung Chang: Another thing is by externalising and verbalizing articulating your understanding and the design solution, it will provide others like the experts or the educators are. 355 00:52:13.800 --> 00:52:21.960 Yoo Kyung Chang: Your mentors to see how you are thinking about the problem and the design solution, so they can give relevant and effective feedback to your process. 356 00:52:26.940 --> 00:52:28.740 Jin Kuwata: A lot of stuff going on today right. 357 00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:39.090 Jin Kuwata: yeah it's interesting because you know you try to keep the message simple but there's all these other interesting connected interrelated interactive elements like to go through with this. 358 00:52:39.720 --> 00:52:55.530 Jin Kuwata: um but yeah, you know as to kind of summarize and wrap this up um, what do you think you can you know if you wanted our audience, who, by the way, thank you very much audience for the wonderful participation, we were coming into you're wondering, are they going to run out and, yes, they will. 359 00:52:56.610 --> 00:53:00.660 Jin Kuwata: But what would you want them to take away from from this experience that they had. 360 00:53:01.620 --> 00:53:09.240 Yoo Kyung Chang: So I think if there's anything, and one thing that we want everyone who is here today, to take away from our conversation. 361 00:53:09.870 --> 00:53:18.120 Yoo Kyung Chang: is to think more concretely about and reflect on your own practice but up on an as a designer but also as an educator as a mentor. 362 00:53:18.690 --> 00:53:28.140 Yoo Kyung Chang: Because we're all working and learning with each other what are some of that the the underlying nature of the learning experience that we are designing for. 363 00:53:28.740 --> 00:53:35.130 Yoo Kyung Chang: What are the the fundamental reason why we're having these challenges and what are some of the ways we can continue to improve upon. 364 00:53:35.850 --> 00:53:40.350 Yoo Kyung Chang: By using some of the sort of topics or the talking points that we brought up. 365 00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:54.780 Yoo Kyung Chang: During the talk, I mean that's something that I am continuing to struggle with and I hope that everybody continues to struggle with it, not in a bad way, but as a weight, we can continue to develop and iterate ourselves as a better designer absolutely. 366 00:53:55.110 --> 00:53:55.740 Yoo Kyung Chang: How about you Jen. 367 00:53:56.490 --> 00:53:57.030 For me. 368 00:53:59.250 --> 00:54:07.710 Jin Kuwata: I guess one takeaway that i'd like people to come out with is, we all have a little bit of nervousness right, as I was mentioning you know. 369 00:54:08.970 --> 00:54:18.090 Jin Kuwata: I might be more experienced in one area, but a student coming in, who is maybe relatively novice and designed coming in with a lot of expertise and experience in a particular field right. 370 00:54:18.720 --> 00:54:30.390 Jin Kuwata: there's a lot to learn right, so, as you know, we take on these roles to help others learn design we gain our own experiences with particular projects and areas. 371 00:54:31.470 --> 00:54:41.490 Jin Kuwata: it's good to kind of be humble and kind of look inward and realize that oh there's still a lot of stuff we don't know right and there's a lot of spaces for us to share. 372 00:54:42.030 --> 00:54:51.600 Jin Kuwata: And so you know we're embarking on this kind of interesting space right where we're shifting and challenging the ideas of traditional instructional design and trying to reframe what well. 373 00:54:51.900 --> 00:54:57.000 Jin Kuwata: learning experience and that How does that intersect right so there's a lot of unknowns and. 374 00:54:57.720 --> 00:55:08.880 Jin Kuwata: yeah it's a challenging and interesting area to explore and to continue growing, and so I hope that, as you think about your own self and how you can grow you're also kind of. 375 00:55:09.150 --> 00:55:26.220 Jin Kuwata: never forgetting and taking that for granted as you're approaching your students, you know empathy goes far in this area that we are in and go out there and design, so thank you very much for being such a wonderful audience, this is really fun. 376 00:55:27.180 --> 00:55:27.600 Yoo Kyung Chang: Thank you. 377 00:55:30.300 --> 00:55:38.520 Matthew Schmidt: Wonderful what an engaging and and fun webinar this has been Thank you so much you come Thank you Jen. 378 00:55:38.970 --> 00:55:44.430 Matthew Schmidt: Outstanding before we finish up a few things first of all, we will be posting. 379 00:55:44.730 --> 00:55:54.600 Matthew Schmidt: A recording of this alongside the slide deck that you are got the chance to experience today to ED tech books and that will be going out sometime next week. 380 00:55:54.870 --> 00:56:03.300 Matthew Schmidt: I would also like to take a moment I believe we actually have one of the presenters here to inform you have an upcoming webinar. 381 00:56:04.230 --> 00:56:16.560 Matthew Schmidt: This one is going to be entitled to certificates in learning experience design educating the next generation of learning professionals, and this is with Rebecca and Chris. 382 00:56:17.040 --> 00:56:24.600 Matthew Schmidt: Can tanana and we will look forward to that I will paste the tiny URL for the sign up for that in case you are interested. 383 00:56:25.530 --> 00:56:30.480 Matthew Schmidt: And to finish there are some exciting advancements that are happening in this space. 384 00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:39.960 Matthew Schmidt: There will be a special issue that will be announced presently for the journal of applied instructional design centering around learning experience design. 385 00:56:40.470 --> 00:56:48.030 Matthew Schmidt: We will also be putting out a call for book chapters for the second edition of the learner and user experience edited volume. 386 00:56:48.420 --> 00:57:01.080 Matthew Schmidt: And there are multiple presentations that are going to be taking place at a CT this year in Las Vegas around learning experience design, so I encourage you all to check those out stay tuned. 387 00:57:01.470 --> 00:57:07.560 Matthew Schmidt: pay attention to the the typical communication channels and we will keep you all informed of it. 388 00:57:08.370 --> 00:57:21.330 Matthew Schmidt: Beyond that, I wish you all a wonderful weekend I hope that we see you at our next learning experience design webinar in the design and development division webinar series Thank you everyone have a great Friday, thank you. 389 00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:22.470 Yoo Kyung Chang: Thank you bye bye. 390 00:57:22.710 --> 00:57:23.220 Olha Pavlenko: Thank you.